The good and bad of geotags

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
But the information’s out there. Right. You can find a lot of information on people, especially via social media, and especially unwitting people like college students who are really just living their lives and they’re trying to have fun and be very social. Right. Because that’s the currency of today, is your lived experiences and your social impact and influence and whatnot you.

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JEFF PHILLIPS
Welcome to Needlestack, the podcast for professional online research. I’m Jeff Phillips, your host.

SHANNON RAGAN
And I’m Shannon Ragan, Needlestack producer and your co host for today.

JEFF PHILLIPS
And then joining us today is James A. Samuel, Jr. He’s the founder and CEO of Pluribus, Inc. And Pluribus is the maker of Anjel Tech, the world’s premier personal security service. James also brings 30 years of Department of Defense experience. So today we’re going to continue our series on GEOINT and talk about how it intersects with the OSINT fields, talk about how he’s now leveraging that in a commercial sense. So, James, welcome to the show.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Jeff. Thank you, Aubrey. Shannon, I really appreciate the invitation and the ability to be with you guys today to talk about all things GEOINT, OSINT and just real life.

JEFF PHILLIPS
We really appreciate it.

SHANNON RAGAN
Great.

JEFF PHILLIPS
So you spent an impressive 31 years in the Department of Defense. James, how did your experience with geospatial and open source intelligence disciplines change over the course of your career there?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Well, because I started when I was three. Perfect. There have been a lot of developments that have gone on in the last three decades, and I think it’s Moore’s Law, right, that capacitor space and computing power doubles every 18 months. And I think he just passed away not too long ago. So tip of the hat to Moore Moore’s Law. But we’ve just seen that acceleration in the course with Generative AI coming on the scene in Chat GPT OpenAI recently. It’s just accelerating. There’s a saying because I’m a former telecommunications engineer and Air Force fighter pilot, and the jet, the faster you go, the faster you go faster. And so there’s sort of a Ram jet effect, right. You get this compressed air into your intakes, and it causes your combustion to happen faster and hotter, which pushes you faster, which then is cyclic. So I feel like we’re kind of living in that space in the digital age.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah. In that 31 years, I’m sure. Kind of the evolution of OSINT, the introduction of the Internet, the availability and volume of open source information, drastically changed all of the other ends. Do you have any personal stories or experiences with that shift over time?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah. Will just to be clear, Shannon, the Internet was around when I started.

SHANNON RAGAN
I was also three at the time.

JEFF PHILLIPS
I launched the Internet.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Oh, there you go. A man from DARPA in the house. Okay. Yeah. So I just want to make sure I get the question right here, because I was just thinking about, wow, I’m feeling really old all of a sudden.

SHANNON RAGAN
That’s not our intent.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
I know. No, it’s okay. It’s all right. Look, it’s a blessing to be around for every year I have, but yeah. So personal stories about the intersection of open source intelligence and geospatial intelligence, and I just want to break a couple of those things down for a second. Right. So the int is intelligence, right? So in OSINT, it’s open source intelligence. There’s all kinds of INTs. Do you know what the fastest int in the world is? The very fastest int?

JEFF PHILLIPS
I do not.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah. It’s called room. It okay, so if there’s a rumor, that rumor is going to spread faster than any other intelligence source you got out there.

SHANNON RAGAN
It’s very true.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah. So in the community, in the profession, we all understand that Room It is the fastest of all the ants. Not necessarily the most accurate, but it’s the fastest.

SHANNON RAGAN
This is the jokes podcast. I like this.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yes. You got to keep it real and you got to keep it light, because just watch the news. It’s pretty heavy out there right now.

SHANNON RAGAN
Indeed.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
So. Yeah. I’ve deployed to Afghanistan. And I’ve deployed to East Africa. Like I mentioned, I’ve flown jets. So in my 31 years or so, I’ve seen a lot of changes in open source and in geospatial and mapping technology, another word for geospatial or geospatial intelligence. And then the intercourse just means sources and methods. So what makes it intelligence is and what makes it classified is how you got it. Right. The information is not classified to someone, somewhere. But if you get it through classified means, sources and methods, then that makes it classified. And so open source intelligence is really it encapsulates all of intelligence. It’s just you happen to have found it through a source and a means that was not classified. And sometimes that source and means can be classified, but the people who have it through classified means can’t acknowledge they can either confirm or deny how they got it, and so they won’t, corroborate that what you’re saying is correct, but it may also be true. You just got it through open source means. And I’ll give you a quick example, a quick anecdote maybe, too. Do you remember when the bin Laden raid was happening, right, in Abadabad, Pakistan?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
For those who don’t know, Abatabad is just Abbott obad. It’s an old English name, kind of abbott named the city in Pakistan, so it’s called a bottabad. But anyway, a little bit of geospatial history for you. But somebody was tweeting, right? They were basically tweeting like, hey, what’s going on? I hear helicopters around this weird. There’s a military academy nearby here in Pakistan, but they shouldn’t be doing any exercise at night. Why are there helicopters? Why do I hear rotors this time of night here in Abadabad? This is strange. And so somebody had a live tweet about the bin Laden raid happening at that exact time, and that was a highly classified operation by us. Special forces and intelligence community. But if you had found that live stream, that live tweet, you could have had eyes on and ears into that highly classified event at the time it was happening and possibly toward it, the whole thing. So open source intelligence is really powerful, and the more prevalent it becomes, I think we’re finding more and more applications for it.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah, it was interesting when we were speaking ahead of the podcast, you’re saying about maybe the reliance on a specific int or type of source differs kind of regionally. Like, your experience in africa was much more different than kind of the entrenchment of the american forces in afghanistan. Could you speak a bit about kind of changing tactics based on where you are?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Will yeah. So I was in kabul in 2010, time frame 2009, 2010. And so by then, we’d had already almost a decade or so of us. Build up and coalition build up there in the country. So there were a lot of boots on the ground. There was a lot of defense department, both us. Defense and international defense department spending in that region of the world. So we had a lot of good data. And so it takes data to make maps, period. And so with all of that great data, we were able to make some pretty refined maps. And then throughout the course the next decade or so there, the data just kept accumulating. So there was a considerable investment in the data availability of that space. And so you can make some pretty accurate maps based on that if you juxtapose that to east africa. And about a year later, I was there on the horn of africa also working for the defense department, and there had not been this large swell of us. Or other military presence there, so the data was pretty scarce. And so we had to rely on old french maps.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
And I guess now you could probably say there’s probably a lot of chinese maps right, in africa because of the chinese presence on the continent. But yes, you have to be very resourceful, and open source is a great way to find information and use it. And depending on where you are and the investment that’s been there based on either wars that were fought there or commercialization, as in the case of china on the continent of Africa, now, there will be more or less data based on that, and you just have to be very agile on how you apply it.

SHANNON RAGAN
It’s a great point. So I wanted to shift gears a little bit. I originally got queued on to you through a video clip I saw you share about a conversation around geo tags and some high profile criminal investigations. Actually, could you explain what a geotag is and where they come from and then potentially the role that they play in investigations or how they’re exploited?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah. So what you’re probably referring to is some recent interviews I’ve done regarding a couple of high profile cases. One, the four college students that were murdered in idaho and then also the Murdoch case on the other coast here, us. Carolinas, and geospatial information and social media played pivotal roles. One, I firmly believe in the case of the Idaho murders, that Koberger the assailant, right? He used his knowledge of criminology, being a PhD student in criminology at a nearby university, I think it was Washington state or university of washington, I forget which one it is. He had a background in criminology, as it were. And so I believe he used social media to develop what’s called a pattern of life analysis around those four particular two of those students. And then the other two were just sort of there with them because of their friends network. But the information is out there, right? You can find a lot of information on people, especially via social media, and especially unwitting people like college students who are really just living their lives and they’re trying to have fun and be very social, right, because that’s the currency of today, your lived experiences and your social impact and influence and whatnot.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
And so they were sharing their lives on social. And I believe that he put together what in the military vernacular is called a pattern of life analysis. And you can google this, right? You can go out and look for army manuals that are out there in open source about how the army is trained in its tradecraft to do this, for looking for high value targets and other people. And I believe Koberger did this as well. But in the case of Murdoch, the son who was murdered actually streamed his dad’s voice at the kennels. And his dad had denied that he was anywhere around those kennels at that time of day. And he had built, because he’s a lawyer, multigenerational lawyer, prosecutor, whatnot there. And he had built this whole fabricated, this whole story about where he was and when he wasn’t there. And his son just obliterated that with one piece of geospatial information, one piece of social media information, and that was his dad’s voice, placed him at the kennels. And once the prosecution team unveiled that in the course of the trial, it just obliterated the debt’s defense, his alibi was gone, and he had to start admitting on the stand that he had been lying.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
And then he had to come up with reasons why he was lying about his lies and it just did him in. And so there’s two different cases, right? One where it was used to harm people, I believe, in the case of the Idaho students, and one where that information, those geo tags, were used to convict the murderer. And I believe there will be an angle of it even in the Idaho case as it proceeds. But geotags is simply just data about data, right? It’s metadata. And it was first used for photography, right? And DSLRs, digital single reflex reflective cameras, whatever, those professional cameras. And it’s migrated over to smartphones, which are basically just cameras now, more than anything else. They’re very powerful cameras, but that mechanism is still there. And so in your settings, your camera is capturing a lot of information. The Fstop, the exposure, the aperture, there’s all these different photographic things that your camera is capturing about the metadata, about that picture. Location is one of those things. And when you share information or you post something on Craigslist or whatever, if you don’t strip that metadata off of that picture, you’re giving away your location on that bicycle that you’re trying to sell online somewhere, right?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
And I’ll just give this one more example quickly, and then we could talk about how to take these things off. But there was a Russian, Ukraine used this same data against Russian forces who were posting about their barracks, their Russian barracks and their living accommodations. And they put a picture on Russia’s version of Facebook. And Ukraine was using that open source intelligence and saw that picture and saw that the metadata, the geotag was still attached to it and used it to target that barracks and launched an airstrike against Russia using that Russian soldiers metadata, that geotag on their picture. And then the Russian soldiers, still not witting of what happened to them, took another picture of the battle damage after that strike and posted it online. And the Ukrainians used that same picture to do battle damage assessment to figure out how well their strike occurred. And so it’s being used all over the place and we just need to be more aware of it just to help.

JEFF PHILLIPS
So when we use like geotag and that metadata, I think sometimes referred to as EXIF data, right, on Photos, I believe that’s the case which is based on your GPS. But I guess my point is that’s a snapshot in time because once it’s happened, it’s happened. It’s not necessarily tracking you personally from a GPS perspective, like a GPS satellite is tracking me. I mean, that’s ongoing live, and then the geotag is one, it happens to take your GPS coordinates when you took that picture and posted it to the cloud, correct?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Well, it depends. So, first of all, an XF file is called, I think it stands for Exchangeable Image File Format EXIF, right? And there are cleaners. You can go out online and just search for XF cleaners. And there’s different ways that you can get either individual or batch cleaning of your stripping of all that metadata off of your photo. So that’s one tip I give to people, is go out and Google and research these excess cleaners to help clean up your metadata. But if you go into your Apple phone, your iOS right now, and I’d have to imagine Google is very much the same, and you go into your settings and you look at your location and your privacy settings, you will see that there’s little data, little indicators along those different apps that shows how often those apps are tracking your location. And when one tracked it in the last 12 hours, the last 24 hours, the last 48 hours, when one’s using your location right now. And so the pictures have metadata attached to them that goes out when you send a picture. But there are many apps that are actually constantly tracking your location based on the permissions you set when you download that app, and that information is being continuously shared with that company.

SHANNON RAGAN
Okay, I may or may not be opening my settings right now.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Yeah, taking a look, and I didn’t think of the it’s a great point that the apps I’ve heard following on the podcast, different Osin investigators like Bellingcat, which has been very famous in the press, so they’ve been giving commoners, if you will, educations and using social media to look at things that we can go and try to figure out. Where did that picture actually take? Was it taken? And is there EXIF data or geotagging data there? But I didn’t think about that. Yeah, my apps are tracking me on an hourly or every 12 hours. Is there other geospatial information? I guess the biggest thing, obviously, is where I’m at. Is it giving other information about me? I guess I should check those settings.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah, check your settings. The location is there. You can see your location and privacy. But have you noticed that recently there have been, at least on the iOS side, there have been some updates that say, do not allow this app to track my location or track me across these different as I’m moving throughout cyberspace? Because I would imagine but I can’t confirm that there is other information that is being shared about you through your phone, your buying habits, your preferences, or like to dislike your in addition to your location, there’s other metadata, I believe, that is being shared, and we just don’t have a lot of insight into that. But an indicator to me that it’s more than just your location is this new protection that at least on the Apple phones, allows you to say, no, I don’t want this app to track me across other apps.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah, I think it seems like the tech world is certainly responding to tracking overload and at least putting a bit more power in the consumer’s hands. Social media platforms are stripping except data from images and videos that are uploaded there. I did actually, for the investigative side, stumbled across a tool to help find geotag information on YouTube video. I think it’s called YouTube Geofind. So for investigators that are looking in a particular space, you can set the parameters of the radius, the time frame that you’re looking in, if you’re doing sort of geo investigations via YouTube videos. So lots of tools, I’m sure popping up in that sphere, no doubt. Yeah, I guess. Aside from geo tags, are there other open source GEOINT relevant resources or go to tools that are just kind of laying in the public sphere? Do you have any recommendations for investigators in that realm?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Wow. Well, I’ll tell you, google is a great one, right? Because it is essentially organizing the world’s information, right? I don’t know if that’s their official tagline, but that’s what they’re doing. And so the way in which that search engine works is just really phenomenal. And this isn’t an endorsement. I’m not paid by Google or anything like that, but you kind of reached a certain level in your space when your name becomes a verb for your activity, right? And so that’s the first one. I just say use Google for sure because it is organizing the world’s information. We talked a little bit about generative AI just a second ago, kind of mentioned it topically. But the chat GPT coming out of the scene is another great tool because it also is organizing the world’s information, but just doing it in a different way. And of course, Google has barred, I think, is their version of generative AI that’s out there as well. But I would say artificial intelligence is probably the next big difference maker in this space of finding things that were previously unfound, because it is scrubbing and organizing, cataloging, and bringing together the world’s information in heretofore unforeseen ways.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
So I would say that is another great tool. I would ask folks to employ it and just know that it is not perfect. It does have faults, buyer beware, but it is a fantastic tool that’s out there. That’s a very scary tool that’s out there right now, but also a very useful tool that’s out there.

JEFF PHILLIPS
That’s a really good point. And an episode or two ago, we were talking again about geo n as kind of a theme. The last few shows, if we think about the satellite side of things and talk about images, just how many images, I don’t even remember. The gentleman tried to estimate the amount of terabytes or what level, but there’s so many photos and that at this point we can’t analyze them. All right, are there enough OSINT and geo n analysts out there to actually sift through and gather intelligence and make recommendations based on what all these information these satellites are tracking and pictures they’re able to provide? And the answer was no. And so can artificial intelligence start to help us automate some of that? Basically the analysis side of open source intelligence. To get to actual intelligence, there’s one thing to research and find it, and then I’ve got to analyze it, and there’s too much data.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
100%. We went through this my former agency, I was employed, department of Defense and the Gon agency and Ga. And we went through this gosh probably starting and really looking into this more than a decade ago because you’re talking about the Voluminous open source information that’s out there. But then there’s an equally prior set of Voluminous government data that is out there that has been going on since satellites first started, before the public had access to them. And sifting through all that data is an impossible human task. And so there’s something called AAA, which is artificial intelligence automation and augmentation that the intelligence community has really started to employ, to research and to employ, because there are only so many analysts. But the number of images just increase year over year. To really help humans do what humans are best at, which machines can queue up for the humans, can augment them right, make humans better at their task by sifting through all of those piles and finding that to your name, that needle in the haystack or needle in the needle stack, and then saying, here, human, look at this. This deserves your attention.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
I’ve done my job. I’ve cut out all the other monotony. And this is the stuff that’s interesting, that’s different, that’s different from a baseline perspective than what it was before. And you need to put your human bias and your human brain on this. And that’s really the future of AI for imagery analysis, and not just in the visual spectrum, but in the synthetic aperture radar spectrum and in the infrared spectrum and all others.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah, Mark Knapp, our last guest, I think, was definitely getting into that as well. There’s just so much beyond even what the human eye and human brain can process. So leverage tech as best you can.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Hey, and here’s one for you for the real deep geomet nerds out there, please. Yeah. The visual spectrum, when you look at the phenomenology of imagery and how light works in the visual spectrum, if you look at that in the radar spectrum, it’s much more about math than it is. It’s much more the science than the art. And so the machines, I believe, are going to be a lot better at doing that on the radar imagery side because radar imagery is just blob ology. You look at it and it’s not made for visual eyes, but the math behind it can be quantified and the algorithms can be trained, I believe, better to sift through that faster. And there’s a lot more, I think, that can be done with the math behind that with the machines on the radar side.

SHANNON RAGAN
Fascinating.

JEFF PHILLIPS
There’s a lot of stuff keeping an eye on us, Shannon, from up above, is what we’re finding out.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah, brave new world, for sure.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yes.

SHANNON RAGAN
So as we wrap up, I did want to talk a little bit about your organization behind you, Pluribus, and the Anjel Tech solution. Could you tell us a little bit about that and the intersection with GEOINT?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah. Again, thanks for having me and give me the opportunity to talk about Pluribus. So Pluribus is a geospatial startup, essentially, right? It is a geospatial. And it’s also a geosocial company that I founded back in 2019 to take those 31 or so years of exposure and tradecraft at the highest levels in our federal and even in international spaces and bring it into the public sphere and say, here are tools that are founded in that deep tradecraft and the deep science and technology, but here are public tools that you can use to leverage the cloud based live streaming and geospatial location and use it to help keep yourself safe. And so we’ve launched our first technology, which is called Anjel Tech. And it’s angel with a J, because I’m James and it is a live streaming. I know, right?

JEFF PHILLIPS
Yeah, I love it.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
It’s just that simple, but easy to remember. A little vanity there, right? But yeah, it is easy to remember. And it’s Anjel Tech because for lots of reasons, it’s technology that keeps an eye on you, that is for you, right, helps protect you. It’s based off of Psalms 90 111. He shall give his angels charge over you, and they shall keep you, and they shall help you, and they shall protect you against harm and danger, essentially. And so that’s why it’s called Anjel Tech, but it is a live streaming application that is for any iOS and Android phone, right? So that’s it. It’s in the App store. Google Play store. It works on any iOS and Android device current, right. There can’t be any more like five, six years old, right? So don’t, don’t take first generation iPhone. Is that he lied.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Someone’s software is having issues supporting versions from ten years ago.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
We try the lady the last five or six years. We got you.

JEFF PHILLIPS
That’s good. I’m impressed with going five years back.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yeah, we can go back. But anyway, and it puts that power into your hands and says, here are tools and techniques you can use to keep your family safe. So if you’re a college student, if you are a jogger, if you are experiencing any type of, maybe even abuse in an elderly home, if you’re in a school and the shooting is happening, if you get pulled over, by police or you have a flat tire and you’re not sure if your surroundings you can use Anjel Tech to let your loved ones know where you are, see exactly what’s happening to you, get a route provided so they can get to you and or send help to you. And it was launched really in the Black Lives Matter movement right after George Floyd, right. That was the first use case we saw like, okay, this needs to get to the world right now. And angel was really a smaller part of a much larger fabric that Burbus is still developing that we decided to separate and launch immediately and make it its own thing. And then once we finish building our other tech in the garage year, we’ll put them back together and you’ll see the fuller picture that Purbus was created for, which is really going to blow your mind because it will change the way everything works together cooperatively, both humans and machines.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
And so it’s based on something called identity based navigation. I won’t go into it. You can go to our website, Purposedata.com, but it’s for humans and machines. It’s navigating and it’s moving through space and time based on your attributes, not the attributes of your location solely, but it puts them all together. It says, okay, this is your identity, whatever makes you you both human and machine. And then it marries those in a Vin diagram, kind of a way with your environment, and it helps you find productive routes through it and productive services in the midst of it. So, that’s what Purpose was founded to do. Anjel Tech was a small part of that. Because of what happened to George Floyd, we launched right away, and it’s working out there right now by itself. So that’s really kind of overarching why there’s lots more to it. But I’ll stop there to see if you have any questions.

JEFF PHILLIPS
I do, because I think to kind of connect it into the geospatial side. So you mentioned it’s my phone, so it’s got my GPS coordinates. It’s now going to also record and stream. You just basically said it’s a live stream, and automatically hit me. So now we all know to your point where you’re at, and it’s going to store it in the cloud, I think, also, right, in case that device is taken or stolen or whatever, you’ve taken a lot of things and put them together here. From a personal safety perspective, I think we were using that. Would you use the phrase PerSec? We were talking about OpSec and all the different sacks per SEC, which is.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Why we have one of these. Okay.

SHANNON RAGAN
Your baby.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Yes. Right. We got a patent for our baby because it is unique. It does combine all those things together in a very unique way, provides a unique service utility.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah. Well, congratulations. It seems like a very unique app and almost unfortunately so needed for our times. But I’m sure we’ll be well used.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
I hope so. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, just our YouTube site has all kinds of information out there. So go to Anjel Tech on YouTube, you’ll see lots of demos of the location, tracking how it tracks you every 10 seconds is our clip. And then the Latin long are there as well. What’s unique about Anjel Tech is when you view that live stream in the app, it stores your track your breadcrumbs along your path with that image, and it keeps them together with that video. So you can go back and see, okay, this is where they were at that time, and here’s how they progressed. They were walking, they were running, they stopped. Here’s how long they’re at this location. So it gives you. More than just a snapshot in time. It gives you trend data as well.

JEFF PHILLIPS
I didn’t pick that up, James. That is super cool.

SHANNON RAGAN
Yeah. More detailed snapshots.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Cool. Yeah. It’s not the right word in a safety app, but I didn’t realize every 10 seconds right. As compared to I get the streaming live now. I’m here right now and in danger. But that almost sounds like I’m sorry, Jim, if you never maybe got to the point of being able to stream, is it just kind of live in the back, still tracking that stuff in the background?

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
No, it’s not. At this point, it’s only when you press the stream button. Press the stream button. Okay. For privacy concerns, we didn’t want it tracking you all the time.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Right.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
As well. So we turn that feature off. Future versions, we may enable, something like that. But right now you have to say, I need people to know where I am right now. And I want to drop a breadcrumb or a series of breadcrumbs, and once you hit that button, then all those.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Things okay, but if I hit it now, and then I end up in a car and going 3 miles away or 5 miles, but it is now. I’m recording every 10 seconds. That’s in a discreet way, right, that.

SHANNON RAGAN
Separates the angels from the big brother. Sure.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Yeah. No, that’s a good point, too. I didn’t pick up that part.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
That’s really cool. There’s a video out there. It’s called our super cool location tracking. And I go to the Lincoln memorial here, and it’s actually interesting because they took that clip out of that video, and it’s actually in our patent there’s a screenshot of that clip memorial in our patent showing the location. Tracking there and how, when you watch the video, you’ll see as I’m walking down the steps at the Lincoln Memorial from the spot where Dr. King gave his I have a dream speech, I walk down towards the reflecting pool and you see my video on one side. You see the angel map on the other side, and you can see my iris kind of marching along as you see the video moving and it’s all laced together.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Well, that is great stuff. So, again, encourage everyone to check out the website. We will definitely have all of that information in the show notes. I want to say thanks to our guest, James A. Samuel Jr. For joining us today. It was a great conversation. So as Plurvis moves forward, we’d love to have you back again, sir.

JAMES A. SAMUEL, JR.
Oh, I would love to come back, Jeff. And before I forget, if not this Friday, perhaps the next Friday, but here shortly, your audience can go out and see a clip of me talking about the geotagging aspect of the Idaho murders on Dateline. I was interviewed by NBC’s Dateline. And so that’s going to come out. They’re doing the final checking, and there’s some changes in the trial, the actual happening of the trial right now. But that’s going to come out here in the next probably a week or two, maybe three, and your folks can go out and find that Dateline clip and I’ll be talking about it on NBC dateline about geotagging in conjunction with the Idaho murders.

SHANNON RAGAN
We’d be remiss if we did not have a plugs portion of the podcast. Thanks for sharing.

JEFF PHILLIPS
Yeah, no, that’s great. And obviously our listeners need to that’ll be another place to continue to expand their knowledge on the Geotag front. So thanks for bringing that up. Well, everyone, if you like what you heard, you can view transcripts and other episode info on our website, authentic8.com/needlestack. That’s authentic with the number eight .com/needlestack. And be sure to let us know your thoughts on Twitter @needlestackpod and like and subscribe wherever you’re listening today. We’ll be back next week with more on our subject of GEOINT. We’ll see you then.